Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

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Greybeard
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Location: East Yorkshire

Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by Greybeard »

I've been cleaning the tank of my M31DL of its surfeit of decaying Petseal over the last few weeks - there was a 1/2 inch thick slab of the damn stuff in the bottom of the tank :evil: which took nearly 3 weeks of attack by Sealeater to make it let go its hold from around the tank front mounting.
Previously I have used Tank Care products - good at stripping out Petseal and clearing any rust etc, but very temperature dependent when it comes to applying the final coating. After doing the G80 tank about 3 years ago I didn't bother using the 2nd kit I bought - it's still on the shelf.
I've used POR15 on several other tanks which has been very effective and easy to apply. I use a combination of caustic soda then phosphoric acid to clean and de-rust the tanks prior to the final coating and have had excellent results.
For this tank I thought I'd give Tapox a go as it gets good reviews and I was able to pick up enough to do two 4 gallon tanks for about the same price as one tin of POR15.
The instructions recommended the use of Fertan to treat any rust so I thought 'In for a penny etc' and got some. All went well until it came to rinsing the tank out after 24hrs. Rather than having a nice treated surface I found that the tank was left coated in a fairly dense, and poorly adhering black deposit of excess Fertan. The coating dislodges very easily with a prod but won't rinse off. As a result I really don't feel inclined to put Tapox on top of it as it seems destined to fail.
Ive tried the helpline and the chap suggested filling the tank with hot water and letting it stand for about 5 hours - next to no effect :(
Has anyone else had the same issue and found a way of removing the fertan? I'm still waiting for a reply from the importers.

Steve
leswaller
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Location: Chipping Norton

Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by leswaller »

I have used both Fertan and Tapox a couple of times but have not had the problems you have described. All i can query is did you leave the tank upside down to drain the excess Fertan out whilst it was drying? This is suggested to ensure that you dont end up with excess Fertan on the metal in globules. I think this is what might have happened.
Les
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise
Greybeard
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Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:49 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by Greybeard »

I did, Les, but too much seems to have stuck to the tank all over, even the vertical sides - unless I've got an unusually thick batch :roll: I could have understood it had it been just where it could puddle. If I use it again I will dilute it so that it doesn't leave so much clinging to the metal. It was all going so well until this point. Unless I hear otherwise I shall have to experiment with different ways of dissolving/removing it and starting again. Good job it's winter and the bike's not needed yet ;)

Steve
g5wqian
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Location: near swindon wilts

Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by g5wqian »

i did one of my tanks with carswell , its good but needs to be done in the warm, warmer the better too , ie like a hot summers day due to the epoxy being quite thick and flows slowly .

for cleaning out the tank which was covered in surface rust i first put some gunwash/standard cellulose thinners in along with some m8 nuts and shook it and left it and did same again a few times over a few days .

the gunwash thinners will often make paint type products go soft and turn jelly like and also pickle it if its soaked for any time .


after the gunwash i filled tank with malt vinegar and and left it for a week , but turned and shook the tank each day .
it certainly got the rust off but took a bit of rinsing and draining and drying to get the residue out .

for the fertan you might shift it using some pickling paste as used for cleaning stainless steel after welding but i have only used it on stainless when i weld it , there is a pickling fluid available but no doubt it is not cheap .

perhaps going back in time might be the solution and using a galvanised tin bath and a gas burner and a good boil up in some water and caustic soda might be the answer .


i remember back in my railworks days that the cleaning tanks were allways boiling hot or steamers and they worked a treat on those old mucky
train parts .

hope you get it sorted

ian
Triumph-Legend
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Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by Triumph-Legend »

A few weeks back I needed to clean out a 1970's Suzuki tank and believe me it was a right old mess inside. Plenty of heavy surface rusting to get rid of.
First I used a couple of handfuls of steel wood screws, (5.5 x 25 pozi head CSK. Slot head may work just as well but I have not tried these so can't really make a judgment). With a right good shaking to loosed the heavy rust, then collect all the screws out with a magnet on a stick thing. Tape a smaller diameter hose onto the vacuum cleaner tube to suck up all the small bits from within the tank. Block of the fuel tap and indicator holes with some plates made up from some thick scrap plastic sheet, along with gaskets made from a bit of neoprene sheet that I had spare. Then fill the tank with white vinegar bought from the local discount warehouse. Leave for a couple of weeks with the occasional slosh about. Empty and wash out well with water. Dry with a hot air gun and Bob's your uncle. If most of the rust has not shifted. chuck the vinegar back in and give it another go, possibly for a bit longer.

Before you say anything, the choice of using vinegar was due to the large capacity of the tank and the amount of cleaning de-rusting fluid that I would have needed to buy. The vinegar only costs a few pounds for 5 litres, I used four of these and had a bit left over. There is also the advantage that if the vinegar is strained through a bit of rag when putting it back into the plastic containers, it can be used again.

I have also seen swimming pool cleaner used on a you tube video. I was tempted to try this but the vinegar option is so cheap and simple.
Greybeard
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Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by Greybeard »

For derusting I use a cleaner marketed under the jebsol name by a local company. It was developed for cleaning ali milk churns and is phosphoric acid based. Its cheap enough to buy in 25L drums and can be diluted at 5 to 1 without any trouble. I mix enough up to fill a tank to the brim and leave it a day or two after which time every trace of rust has gone. One batch will easily do 3 or 4 tanks. Being phosphoric acid means that itll not eat through the steel like hydrochloric does and its easy going when it comes to paintwork/chrome etc so youve plenty of time to rinse off any splashes. It leaves the tank interior looking like new, which was the stage I was at before trying the fertan. Suckered by the blurb I suppose :oops: I'll stick to what I know next time. If I find an easy way to remove it I shall report back, otherwise Ill start with a handful of gravel to shift what I can. :roll:

Steve
leswaller
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Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by leswaller »

Steve, maybe the residue from the jebsol reacted with the fertan ?
Les
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise
Greybeard
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Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:49 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by Greybeard »

It shouldntve done, as the fertan does contain phosphoric acid anyway, but I take your point, Les. I wonder if it was because there was no rust left for it to have a go at.
Ive just had a go at rinsing it with more of the phoshoric acid and guess what - it's done the trick and dissolved all the fertan giving me back my immaculate tank innards again :D
Now that all the flakey coating has gone I feel much happier about splashing some tapox around in there. That can be tomorrows task.
Needles to say Im now a bit wary about using the fertan again. I need to do my Golden Flash tank next so Ill try a more dilute solution to see how I get on. At least I now know its easily reversible.

A celebratory dram is called for I think. It's not too early is it? ;)

Steve
bitza
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Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by bitza »

I posted a while ago, I derusted a 53 G9 fuel tank which had been stood 40 odd years, I found that vinegar from local chippy ideal
It's 16 to 1 strength so the chippy dilute it, I bought two 5 litre packs, it shifts the rust but a word of caution it will find any pin holes
In the tank good cheap rust remove, works on seized nuts and bolts.
uktom77
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:54 pm
Location: BUCKS UK

Re: Any Fertan or Tapox users out there?

Post by uktom77 »

Hi Steve/Greybeard, did you finish sealing your tank with Tappox? If so did the temperature (ambient) make much difference? I'm about to embark on my first tank lining and am trying to decide which is best, a major factor is having to do this in the garage which is generally quite cold. I can use a heater to warm the tank etc. But don't want to start a job and find it's far too cold to do this and end up wrecking it. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Tom


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