Kettering Classics

[OEW591]

Has the club stopped selling bikes at Kettering? The website doesn't seem to have shown any bikes for sale for a few weeks. If memory serves the last Jampot magazine didn't have an advert either.

Will there be anything to see at the Open Day tomorrow?

[ajscomboman]

Has the club stopped selling bikes at Kettering? The website doesn't seem to have shown any bikes for sale for a few weeks. If memory serves the last Jampot magazine didn't have an advert either.

Will there be anything to see at the Open Day tomorrow?

Nope, I doubt it unless you want a Vincent.

[Group Leader]

I understood that they were having a lot of trouble getting stock to sell (when I relieved them of a certain 350 )

Very difficult to sell stock that you haven't got unless you like to dable in the Futures Market and that's way too exciting for me!

Alan

[Rob Harknett]

Stock did get low, not sure of the situation now. I think situations have also changed, people prefer e bay, to selling to the club or sell on commission basis. Which seems odd to me, as e bay also takes fee's & commission.

[56G80S]

I'd thought the same thing when I looked at Kettering Classics.

I can understand the caution when buying to sell on a tight budget.

I'm sure a Dutch Army 350 curently on Fleabay was first sold through Kettering.

Johnny B

[Triumph-Legend]

In the past I have bought two machines from an agent business selling on behalf of a vendor.
One machine had a list of faults that the previous owner may or may not have been aware of when presenting the bike for sale. A leaking fuel tank, faulty Zener diode was shorted causing a whole list of range of electrical issues. Unfortunately I only found out the fuel tank had been holed by the head steady clamp bolt, after having already spent quite a bit of money sorting out a number of other problems with the machine. The holed tank only became very obvious once the tank was filled and petrol started pouring all over the engine and garage floor. Result and expensive professional repair job and repaint of the fuel tank, new electrical components and battery plus other sundry parts.

The other machine turned out to require a complete engine, gear box, clutch and just about every thing else rebuilt to make it into a machine that could be ridden. The bottom end started rattling after only a short time riding and once again the fuel tank had been thoroughly bodged, requiring expensive professional refurbishment.
One thing that I have learnt is that these old singles can be nine tenths knackered and still ride pretty well.

The basic problem when buying a machines with no knowledge of it's past is having some measure of confidence of the previous owners treatment of a machine. There is nothing to give any guarantee that the machine does not have any number of serious faults that will only come to light once the machine has been owned and ridden for even a relatively short time. One cannot blame a dealer, selling a machine on commission for an owner and not having knowledge of the true condition of a machine, they can only believe and pass on any information provided by the owner.

So what are the answers.
I think the easiest option is to buy from a private seller that has owned the bike for a number of years and can give some fairly detailed information regarding the machines condition and known faults. This option has the advantage that any misrepresentation is actionable. However from a private buyer the usual rules apply, caveat emptor.
I have bought bike that have had faults or non-standard or period parts fitted, but this has been reflected in the price paid. I have ended up with a very sound and original machine at what I believe to be a correct market value.

Buy from a trader that has a worthy reputation and is prepared to give an honest representation of a machine and also to give a reasonable period of warranty for and rectify or compensate for significant faults that may be found within the warranty period. I have bought bikes in the past from dealers and this can be a good option as selling a dodgy machine can cause no end of problems for a trader. Also any untrue or inaccurate representation will be quite easy to resolve through the courts.

It seems to me that buying from an outlet that is merely acting for a fee, as an agent for a seller is possibly a bit tricky as, unless otherwise specified there is no come back if there are problems to resolve. The agent can quite rightly say that they have no liability for any problems found, especially so as no significant warranty period is explicitly defined when buying.
The seller can equally not accept any liability for condition as they may not give an any indication of the condition of the machine. My mates dad was riding it up until four years ago would hardly be considered a worthwhile indication of condition.

Is there a secure way forward that will benefit both buyer and seller and give a measure of confidence to the buyer? Of course there is.

The buyer must give an honest opinion of the condition of the machine in writing to be provided to the potential buyer. Given this the buyer can make a considered decision if thy think the asking price is acceptable for the condition of the machine.
The agent to give a sensible warranty period and the cost of the machine to be held by the agent until the warranty period has expired before passing the funds over to the seller. I accept that this may be an interesting area unless the is sufficient expertise to determine if a warranty may be applied. If the machine is sold without warranty then this should be made very clearly prior to sale as the buyer will then be able to decide whether to accept the potential risk and costs involved if there are any problems.
It must be made clear to the potential buyers that the seller is either a private individual or a trader selling through the outlet. Although this should not affect the sale of the machine, it will give the buyer an indication of provenance.

I have bought some really good bikes and been caught once or twice, (or more). Apart from the added cost and hassle this is not a massive problem for me as I have many years experience of motor cycles and pretty fair engineering skills. But for those with limited experience of old British machines or having limited funds, buying a lemon can be a massive issue and can put them off older British machines for ever more.

I offer these comments as one possible way of maintaining a thriving healthy source of machines to buyers. Please feel free to make comment, criticise or amend. If there is one thing that I have learnt over the years, it is to consider the opinions of others and to bend with the wind

[Triumph-Legend]

Has the club stopped selling bikes at Kettering? The website doesn't seem to have shown any bikes for sale for a few weeks. If memory serves the last Jampot magazine didn't have an advert either.

Will there be anything to see at the Open Day tomorrow?

Why would anybody choose to sell through an agent that takes a significant cut of the asking price yet offers no other obvious benefit to either seller or buyer.
Surely far better off buying from a trader that offers some guarantee of condition. If it's not as described, either get your money back or go to court to resolve any issues.
Why bother buying from an agent when there are machines to be had via club members for sale adverts. At least these machines typically have a known history.


Should the club commit cash to funds bike sales, buying in machines and then selling them on?
Would buyers be happy to purchase a machine in as seen condition or would some period of warranty be applied?
Should traders using what is essentially a convenient showroom / storage facility be given preferential selling or buying discounts as they may represent a larger volume turn over of machines?

Lots of interesting questions. Maybe some could be considered at the next club AGM.

[Rob Harknett]

I think the selling of bikes at Kettering has been going on long enough to discover how it should operate. There are many considerations. Stock value at the start. Profits? remember, if bikes take say 30% of the floor space, the that must be paid for from profits, plus % of other overheads also wages. Re stocking: Cash and bikes need to be available. So any suggestions would need to consider all the costs, to make them work. Also selling and buying trends. Which bikes are fast and slow moving. etc etc. Some suggestions may only sound good in theory. Should the club provide funds? I do not think so. Quite the opposite. As bike sales need to contribute to the club, who's premises it operates from. Dealers sell bikes to make a living from. So should the selling of bikes at Kettering.

[Triumph-Legend]

I think the selling of bikes at Kettering has been going on long enough to discover how it should operate. There are many considerations. Stock value at the start. Profits? remember, if bikes take say 30% of the floor space, the that must be paid for from profits, plus % of other overheads also wages. Re stocking: Cash and bikes need to be available. So any suggestions would need to consider all the costs, to make them work. Also selling and buying trends. Which bikes are fast and slow moving. etc etc. Some suggestions may only sound good in theory. Should the club provide funds? I do not think so. Quite the opposite. As bike sales need to contribute to the club, who's premises it operates from. Dealers sell bikes to make a living from. So should the selling of bikes at Kettering.

Rob, Sorry but I disagree with your conclusions.
Firstly if anything has been learnt over the period of time selling bikes, why is there no stock available to sell?
Value of stock at start. Currently zero. Nothing to sell means no profits at all. No contribution to any material overheads nor staff costs.
No sales also means no cash benefit to the club funds nor any other benefit club members wishing to buy and sell machines.
If the club spends on viable stock this would produce a cash benefit to the club. Viable stock is determined by the makes and models of machines that do sell. As you correctly pointed out, having acted as an agent for a long time, so should be quite knowledgeable and able to determine which machines would produce an acceptable margin.
Should a dealer be treated any differently than an individual when either buying or selling if using an agent. As long as the result is cash going into club funds. My only concern would be that the integrity of the club is maintained. I'm sure that this would benefit buyers providing that a sound warranty is provided for any machine sold.

The easy option is to let sleeping dogs lie. This is great when things are going well. But when there are apparently no sellers willing to use the service offered and consequently no buyers, then there is an obvious need for change. A flash in the pan of a couple of bikes will not suffice to justify the long term future of machine sales. Buyers need to know that the machines that they buy are sound and warranted, unless otherwise described. Sellers need to be completely frank when giving information relating to their machines. Agent fees need to be realistic and if necessary a time limit strictly applied to the time that any machine may be offered for sale. This to remove dead stock and clear space if required. Should other marques be sold? Why not? But I would very much prefer this to be limited to those vehicles defined as Historic Vehicles by the DVLA. (40 plus years old).

[ajscomboman]

I think the selling of bikes at Kettering has been going on long enough to discover how it should operate. There are many considerations. Stock value at the start. Profits? remember, if bikes take say 30% of the floor space, the that must be paid for from profits, plus % of other overheads also wages. Re stocking: Cash and bikes need to be available. So any suggestions would need to consider all the costs, to make them work. Also selling and buying trends. Which bikes are fast and slow moving. etc etc. Some suggestions may only sound good in theory. Should the club provide funds? I do not think so. Quite the opposite. As bike sales need to contribute to the club, who's premises it operates from. Dealers sell bikes to make a living from. So should the selling of bikes at Kettering.

Rob, Sorry but I disagree with your conclusions.
Firstly if anything has been learnt over the period of time selling bikes, why is there no stock available to sell?
Value of stock at start. Currently zero. Nothing to sell means no profits at all. No contribution to any material overheads nor staff costs.
No sales also means no cash benefit to the club funds nor any other benefit club members wishing to buy and sell machines.
If the club spends on viable stock this would produce a cash benefit to the club. Viable stock is determined by the makes and models of machines that do sell. As you correctly pointed out, having acted as an agent for a long time, so should be quite knowledgeable and able to determine which machines would produce an acceptable margin.
Should a dealer be treated any differently than an individual when either buying or selling if using an agent. As long as the result is cash going into club funds. My only concern would be that the integrity of the club is maintained. I'm sure that this would benefit buyers providing that a sound warranty is provided for any machine sold.

The easy option is to let sleeping dogs lie. This is great when things are going well. But when there are apparently no sellers willing to use the service offered and consequently no buyers, then there is an obvious need for change. A flash in the pan of a couple of bikes will not suffice to justify the long term future of machine sales. Buyers need to know that the machines that they buy are sound and warranted, unless otherwise described. Sellers need to be completely frank when giving information relating to their machines. Agent fees need to be realistic and if necessary a time limit strictly applied to the time that any machine may be offered for sale. This to remove dead stock and clear space if required. Should other marques be sold? Why not? But I would very much prefer this to be limited to those vehicles defined as Historic Vehicles by the DVLA. (40 plus years old).

Adrian, I couldn't have put it better myself! Agree 100%.