Kettering Classics

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Stuoyb
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Stuoyb »

The main part of the problem is that many people see a bike like their own at £xxxx in the glossy press and believe that this is the value of their own and therefore this HAS to be the price they get.
We have many examples whre bikes have been offered for purchase at what is the retail price level and the seller is not prepared to budge from this or take into account any cost associated with collection etc.
Bikes offered in “top class” condition at a high price have frequently been found to be in a somewhat poor condition.
The age old fact is that most people want the highest price for the bike they are selling and lowest for the one they want to buy and ignore any on cost associated with it.
G15 Roy
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by G15 Roy »

Stuoyb wrote:The main part of the problem is that many people see a bike like their own at £xxxx in the glossy press and believe that this is the value of their own and therefore this HAS to be the price they get.
We have many examples whre bikes have been offered for purchase at what is the retail price level and the seller is not prepared to budge from this or take into account any cost associated with collection etc.
Bikes offered in “top class” condition at a high price have frequently been found to be in a somewhat poor condition.
The age old fact is that most people want the highest price for the bike they are selling and lowest for the one they want to buy and ignore any on cost associated with it.
So as an example can you tell us when was the last time that Kettering classics bought a bike out right? If you look at some of our main competitors with large stock lists of AMC bikes for sale we must be doing something wrong.
Roy
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by 56G80S »

This is a good discussion, so long as we don't bring any emotional baggage into it. I'm sure all any of us want is to benefit the Club and keep AMC metal on the road.

Picking up on some points made already, Buyers (and sellers) will use a particular route because their is some added value to doing so. I'm currently selling some items and am using Ebay for one because it is rare and going through a expert dealer would require substantial journey time to get to one and still not reach a wide enough market. What has the Club to offer in this regard?

It comes to the confidence in and reputation of the Club and what linkages we are making into the wider market. There are challenges for the Club in moving forward.

- if the sales are made by the Club itself there would need to be confidence in the product on offer and accuracy of the description provided;
- how do we stand in terms of disputes, legal support, insurances and other technical matters?
- in terms of staff structure and responsibilities there are matters to consider for buying and selling;
- clarity about the USP of the Club in the market versus others, in other words, what is the added value of dealing with the Club?

Roy, Dudley and I'm sure other Club Members trade (sure they'll put me right) and it would be interesting to hear their view on this topic.

One thing I'm sure of, despite only being at only 120 odd Ebay sales, you are going to get stuck with a dud sometimes. Not to mention that sometimes the customer doesn't listen or read what they're told, "I'm selling this cheap because the big end is knocking the first thing to do is strip the engine" and then a call back 3 months later complaining!

In conclusion, we need to identify what benefit the Club is getting from motorcycle sales, assess the potential and decide to either do it properly or not at all. A dilletante approach will simply damage the Club.

Apologies for any keyng errors, I am experiencing numbness in right thumb, forefinger and middle finger.

Johnny B
Triumph-Legend
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Triumph-Legend »

Stuoyb wrote:The main part of the problem is that many people see a bike like their own at £xxxx in the glossy press and believe that this is the value of their own and therefore this HAS to be the price they get.
We have many examples whre bikes have been offered for purchase at what is the retail price level and the seller is not prepared to budge from this or take into account any cost associated with collection etc.
Bikes offered in “top class” condition at a high price have frequently been found to be in a somewhat poor condition.
The age old fact is that most people want the highest price for the bike they are selling and lowest for the one they want to buy and ignore any on cost associated with it.
Stuart, I think that you have made a couple of interesting points here.
Unrealistic expectations regarding the value of there machines. The simple answer is to give an opinion of the machines value based on past sales experience allied to current market pricing. If the cost is unrealistic, simple, don't accept the machine for sale. As you quite correctly state, there are costs involved in selling a machine, but including one machine into advertising has no affect on the cost of any advert which may have been placed. Also all cost associated with selling machines are spread across a range of sales as opposed to a very small number or even no sales.
Bikes offered in “top class” condition at a high price have frequently been found to be in a somewhat poor condition.This is precisely why there is a need for honesty from sellers when giving their description of their machine. Also the funds to be held by the agent for a period of time to ensure that any faults that may have been conveniently omitted from the description may either be corrected or compensated for. If there has been a genuine error, then the agent may give their expert advice to both parties. If the buyer wishes to return the machine within this period for a valid reason, Eg, non-disclosed faults, this must be accepted by the both agent and vendor. This will mean that there should be no cause for dis-satisfaction on either side.
Of course sellers want the best price and buy to pay the least. That's the way of things. However if the value is set and agreed upon, why should there be any cause for complaint? All parties know exactly what is on offer. If a buyer wishes the agent to contact the seller with a greater or lesser offer, fine, the revised offer may be accepted of declined by the seller.
Now there are two areas of contention. 1, Bought as Seen. 2, bought as described. 3, Extended warranty is not applicable due to the many variables relating to the age of the machine, quality or any restoration work and parts used in restoration.
1, Bought as seen. Would include any machine that upon inspection shown extensive wear and tear or a basket case fit for rebuild. Also a machine that cannot be ridden away from the agents premises due to mechanical failings.
2, Bought fit to ride away. Generally sound machine, a minor faults such as paint and plating corrosion, rubber parts need replacement, etc. but generally in fair roadworthy condition. These faults would not justify the return of the machine as they would typically be obvious to the buyer and have no material affect on the performance of the machine.

Bikes offered in “top class” condition at a high price have frequently been found to be in a somewhat poor condition. :rofl:
As mentioned in my previous post. I have been caught out like this of two occasions. Oh how I laughed. :headbang: Especially when I realised that there was no come back on either agent or vendor. Hence the comments regarding clear and honest descriptions from the seller in writing. Also the holding of the funds for a limited period of time to ensure security for all parties.

I believe the club can benefit from machine sales as well as being universally accepted as a source of genuine machines at fair prices.

One must remember that Matchless and AJS machines are gentleman's, (Er, and ladies), motorcycles and the club must seek to uphold these possibly a little dated standards as purveyors of parts and previously owned motorcycles.
Last edited by Triumph-Legend on Sun May 13, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
SPRIDDLER
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by SPRIDDLER »

Triumph-Legend wrote: The simple answer is to give an opinion of the machines value based on past sales experience allied to current market pricing. If the cost is unrealistic, simple, don't accept the machine for sale.
I think that's the nub of the matter; owners expect unrealistic min prices to which has to be added seller's commission and collection/selling costs. Probably why Klattering Classics have so little to offer.
Except occasionally with some joker on eBay I've never seen or heard a seller describe their bike as 'An oil-burning bag o' nails that's been nothing but trouble'. I guess most dealers merely pass on what they've been told by the seller which is why too often we read of new owners having major issues with 'restored' bikes.
I believe the only bikes that the club actually buy outright are those required for the raffle......?

BTW - It's not clear to me whether Klattering Classics are part of the 'Club' or an independent trader located at our H.O. building.
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

Wow.... some very long replies. Lots of comments made without full knowledge or consideration of some facts. One being, you are talking about approx. 30% of Kettering HQ. Which needs to pay its way or that expense has to come from subscriptions. Two being, who is going to do whatever is suggested ??????? Waste of time talking about what should be done when there is no one willing to do it. We have " The Club " as the first priority, we must get in members to come forward to fill all the vacant committee positions.
" Spares " the second priority. That puts Bikes sales on the back burner. After the 2018 A.G.M. there may not even be a committee to talk about bike sales. Unless the " acting " secretary has received many members come forward offering to help, to fill all the vacant committee positions..
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

BTW - It's not clear to me whether Klattering Classics are part of the 'Club' or an independent trader located at our H.O. building.

The history of bike sales. Let us start at the point when Ernie M took on the spares job, running it from his bike sales premises. That must have been about 30 years ago, I recall he committee interviewing him before we accepted his offer. Prior to that spares was run from Ron Hughes shed. So a little history there of how spares has progressed. Moving on. When Ernie decided to sell his premises, the club brought Kettering HQ. Ernie continued to run his business at Kettering. He paid the club a rent for % of Kettering his business used. Prior to that we paid Ernie a rent to run spares from his premises. Then Ernie retired his business. The club brought his stock, taking over bike sales. Bike sales then became a club asset, which did of cause first need to pay its way for the % of Kettering it occupied. I'm not good with words but that should give you some understanding of bike sales and how it became a third part of the club.
Flash
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Flash »

I'll make it short and sweet. The last time I offered a couple of bikes to sell at the club I was insulted with what was offered, I think the only way forward is to get someone knowledgeable in the position of making sensible estimates of value of a bike. One of my bikes, close to concourse I was offered £1100 tops, I sold it for £2600 and I'm still getting people ringing me up to see if it's still for sale. peanuts and monkeys come to mind.

TTJohn AKA Flash
G15 Roy
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by G15 Roy »

Rob Harknett wrote:
Then Ernie retired his business. The club brought his stock, taking over bike sales. Bike sales then became a club asset, which did of cause first need to pay its way for the % of Kettering it occupied. I'm not good with words but that should give you some understanding of bike sales and how it became a third part of the club.
Hi Rob i don't think that is correct the club was offered his stock and Trading name but that was sold to another and still trades as Northants classic bikes. There was a competition of sorts at the time to come up with a new trading Name of Kettering Classic bike Sales and yes it is part on the club 100%
Roy
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by SPRIDDLER »

I assume that most if not all the bikes handled by KC are those of club members in which case wouldn't they use this website's adverts facility? Maybe selling through KC would be preferable if it was a bereavement sale or the owner didn't want to deal personally with potential buyers.
I assume dealers normally buy-in stock from classifieds or auctions .....(and sell the registration numbers...... :shock: )
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Which taken at the flood............'
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