Kettering Classics

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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

G15 Roy wrote:
Rob Harknett wrote:
Then Ernie retired his business. The club brought his stock, taking over bike sales. Bike sales then became a club asset, which did of cause first need to pay its way for the % of Kettering it occupied. I'm not good with words but that should give you some understanding of bike sales and how it became a third part of the club.
Hi Rob i don't think that is correct the club was offered his stock and Trading name but that was sold to another and still trades as Northants classic bikes. There was a competition of sorts at the time to come up with a new trading Name of Kettering Classic bike Sales and yes it is part on the club 100%
Could be Roy, re the stock that remained. I only recall the basic's, not the final end result details.
Reynard24
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Reynard24 »

Rob is indeed incorrect, Ernie did offer to sell his business to the club and suffered back biting comments and personal abuse by members of this club for his troubles at a time when he was himself very ill and was grieving the loss of his wife. A shameful way to treat a man who has done so much for the AJS & Matchless Owners Club which led not only to the sale of the Wobbly Bike Shop to a competitor but also in part to his resignation as chairman.
Triumph-Legend
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Triumph-Legend »

To those that have taken the trouble to relate some of the historical detail regarding Kettering Classic Motorcycles. Thanks for the background information. I have in fact heard these details or various versions close to them in the past. Whilst very interesting one must ask how relevant are they to todays trading position. As Rob pointed out there are also other pressing issues, various committee positions to be filled and with the loss of Andrew Engineering as a major manufacturer of parts it certainly looks like interesting times ahead.
So lets try to consider the whole picture. Given that nobody wants the club to suffer, but to thrive in the future, what needs to be done.

1, Committee members - I think that some of the reluctance by new people to come forward is that they may feel as though they are entering an arena of political in fighting rather than a progressive and cohesive group carrying the clubs interests forward.

2, Spares - I do have a few interesting thoughts on this. One in particular being, why on earth are club spares not actively working together with other parts suppliers, rather than duplicating effort to achieve the same goals. Why does the club spares continue to supply any after market spares that are of a less the acceptable quality. I then read on the forum that it is considered to be disloyal to buy from other than the club spare. No it's not a question of loyalty but common sense. We all want the best quality that we can buy no matter where it is purchased. Club spares do their best I'm sure, but their suppliers either need kicking into touch or other suppliers sourced for some of the common cycle parts. If a customer wishes to purchase parts of a lesser quality, then they should be made aware of this limitation. It may be that there is no other part available so maybe some work to improve a part may be needed. The customer should be made aware of this at time of purchase.

3, Bike sales - Please don't get the idea that my views fall into either position over this for any reason other than to enhance the long term strength of the club. I'm no great lover of dealers, but I do think that we can learn from them and use them as a resource like any other. Not to consider this is, I believe to be blinkered to an area which could enhance the clubs standing and revenue.

I try to be fair and considered in my writings and opinions. Yes I have had a some unfortunate and very expensive issues with machines bought from Kettering and yes I have bought some parts that literally fell apart or failed to perform. But lets at least appreciate that the bikes are not factory fresh so may have been tinkered with a bit over the past sixty years. Along with the iffy parts bought, there has been a greater volume of very good quality replacement parts, particularly parts of UK manufacture.

Overall I think the question of the lack of machines and sales from Kettering Classics is merely a symptom of the larger overall picture.
But it is a part of the picture.
Last edited by Triumph-Legend on Mon May 14, 2018 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andy51
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Andy51 »

In response to Triumph Legend in particular, and others in general,
1. Committee members: this is a critical situation - we are in real danger of losing the club if no-one comes forward. I have attended committee meetings and have seen at 1st hand the double or even triple hattingof individuals. There are members out there ready to criticise the committee's decisions - my suggestion to them is to join the committee, they are a grand bunch of people working (too hard in some cases due to double hatting) for our benefit!
2. Spares quality: in many cases we can only offer what is available on the market, in the particular case of electrical spares (common to most British bikes) there is some real cheap and nasty tat out there. I cannot understand why folk are happy to spend several hundred or even thousands of pounds on paintwork, etc, and then try to save a few pence on c**p switchgear. Perhaps the various one-make clubs could get together and commission some half decent replica switchgear? As for the Indian-made stuff, most is probably hand beaten in a village workshop, and there is nothing that can be done about that - it would be impossible to have parts stamped out by presses as they were in the day. I suspect the real problem for spares in general is order quantity, to have really good quality stuff made in the numbers to justify tooling, etc, would be far too expensive, so we go for small runs with low tooling costs and sometimes have to compromise on quality to keep unit costs to a reasonable and sellable price.
3. Kettering Classics: the history is interesting, but unimportant - we are where we are. As a service to members selling bikes on commission, I believe it is still relevant. However, members must be realistic about prices, we need the equivalent of Zoopla the house price website, to see what they actually went for, not the asking price!
Well, what do others think? Andy
Last edited by Andy51 on Tue May 15, 2018 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Triumph-Legend
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Triumph-Legend »

Andy,
PM Sent.
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

Reynard24 wrote:Rob is indeed incorrect, Ernie did offer to sell his business to the club and suffered back biting comments and personal abuse by members of this club for his troubles at a time when he was himself very ill and was grieving the loss of his wife. A shameful way to treat a man who has done so much for the AJS & Matchless Owners Club which led not only to the sale of the Wobbly Bike Shop to a competitor but also in part to his resignation as chairman.
You sure about that? What was Ernie chairman of ? Who was the competitor?
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Reynard24 »

Absolutely sure Rob, for your information Ernie was Chairman of our club - the AJS and Matchless Owners Club - don't you remember? I refer you to page 4 of Jampot 636 June 2005 where Roger Norman wrote up the whole sorry saga and thanked Ernie for his service to the club.
The competitor was and still is Steve Haslar of Northants Classic Bikes who seems to have a full stockists according to his website and magazine adverts in complete contrast to the dirth of machines at Kettering Classics.
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by Rob Harknett »

Reynard24 wrote:Absolutely sure Rob, for your information Ernie was Chairman of our club - the AJS and Matchless Owners Club - don't you remember? I refer you to page 4 of Jampot 636 June 2005 where Roger Norman wrote up the whole sorry saga and thanked Ernie for his service to the club.
The competitor was and still is Steve Haslar of Northants Classic Bikes who seems to have a full stockists according to his website and magazine adverts in complete contrast to the dirth of machines at Kettering Classics.
Thank you for pointing this out James. After 30 years on the club committee I cannot recall all who served on it during that time and position held. I joined the committee just before Ernie became our spares officer. He was always at meetings, but I did not recall him being chairman.
It is understanding a person running a classic bike sales business, must do well or he is not in business. Club sales of bikes is a different set up. It is run by the club. The club has 100's of members, of which only a handful of members come forward to run it. From that handful it cannot be expected, bike sales could be run like or compared to, a person running their own business. The handful of people running the club now, does not have anyone with time to also run bikes sales like a business man would do.
OEW591
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by OEW591 »

There have been some interesting comments following my initial question.

It seems that the Club still has an interest in selling bikes but circumstances have changed since the trading model was decided upon, the biggest of which seems to be the increase in popularity of the internet auction sites.

Selling on commission should be a way to ensure that there should be a variety of stock and it saves having money tied up in bikes that may be slow moving. Is it the right option for every bike I wonder? What are the best selling AMC bikes CSR twins, 500 singles or have the Lightweights come into their own? Perhaps the best selling bikes could be bought outright, exploiting the quick sale option that may be the commission model doesn't offer the potential seller. Of course, it would need someone knowledgeable to be able to judge the quality and soundness of any potential purchase. Given the network of sections throughout the UK is this something that could be done collectively rather than by one individual?

What commission do the Club charge on each sale? Is it a fixed amount, I've heard £500 per machine. That seems a lot for a £1500-£2000 bike but reasonable for a £5000 bike, possibly a bit cheap for a £10,000 bike like a P11. What does a seller get for the commission paid? One photo on the website, possibly a line on the Jampot cover? Obviously it saves the seller from the hassle of dealing directly with potential buyers and 'dreamers'. How much is this point emphasised to sellers and what value does it have?

Rob H rightly points out the lack of volunteers to undertake roles for the Club and says that 'we do not have anyone to run bike sales like a business man'. The Club does have 2 employees that are engaged to run the retail spares operation (as I understand it). Previous holders of these roles also dealt with the bike sales aspect. Have the roles changed or with all due respect to the staff, have we employed people without the right skills to carry out all aspects of the job?

There are a number of classic bike dealers who usually carry AMC machines in stock. How do these dealers manage to source stock? Their asking prices do not seem dis-similar to prices that used to be asked on the Kettering Classics site. I accept that the dealers are actually buying their stock, is this why they can achieve a lower 'stand-in' value. Andy 51 makes an excellent point about asking prices versus actual selling prices. Are expectations being inflated? It seems that some bikes appear regularly on auction sites, usually with reducing asking prices where they don't sell. Is the investor replacing the enthusiast?

If we aren't using the showroom space at Kettering for bike sales are there other activities that could make use of the space and bring in funds for the club?

A lot of questions but no obvious answers.....
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clive
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Re: Kettering Classics

Post by clive »

OEW591 wrote:...A lot of questions but no obvious answers.....
But perhaps a whole lot of reasons for joining the committee?
clive
if it ain't broke don't fix
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