Single sided hub spoke problem

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hatrack
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:36 pm
Location: Somerset

Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by hatrack »

On my 1947 G80 which I am upgrading from the puny 5.1/2" brakes to 7", the single sided front hub has the slightly unusual "keyhole" pattern of spoke holes in the smaller, off side flange.
When new this must have made lacing the wheel a lot easier, as the spoke head could pass through the larger part of the keyhole and then lodge in the smaller diameter part of the hole as the spoke was tensioned.

I have had a wheel rebuilt, but I am very unhappy with the look of it. On that smaller flange, at least 2 spoke heads look about to pull through, and I am sure that any MOT tester would fail it.
I have spoken to the guy who did it and he's prepared to have it back and "put it right" (No names,yet!)
I've arranged for a parcel collection today, but I am anxious as to whether he will fix it adeqately or not.

So a few questions, as to what may be the best way forward.
On the phone he suggested using thicker gauge spokes, which could work as they would have a bigger diameter head, but I'm not sure if the visual effect would be too noticable or not.

I have 2 other hubs, same type, and the keyholes in them are not in much better condition either. One of them came in a wrecked wheel on which small washers had been used under the spoke heads. Apparently this was a dodge in practice, "back in the day" which would work, but would also be unsightly.

A much more drastic step could be, welding up all the holes, marking out for small hole and big holes in exact sizes with appropriate countersink and filing out the bridge between them. A bit of a monster task but with one of my spare hubs I could have a go at it, but it won't be a speedy solution.

Another aspect of the same problem, which I feel may contribute to it significantly, is the angle of the bend in the spoke as it reaches the flange of the hub.
The new spokes are bent less than 90 degrees. And should there be a pre formed bend in the spokes where they bear in the edge of the flange as they pass over it, or is that bend just allowed to form as the spokes are tightened ?

It would be great to have some feedback on this, so that I can make sure his remedies are the best possible solution.
If anybody knows of a wheel builder who understands this particular problem and who has dealt successfully with it, I'd be very glad to hear them.
John Jarrett
Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: MIDDLESEX UK

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by John Jarrett »

I have several original wheels and they were all fitted with washers on the spoke heads on the small flange.... so I don't believe this was a dodge, it was the original factory finish.
Mick D
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by Mick D »

Hi

From the parts list it appears you should have 8G, (0.160" or 4.064mm), spokes on the left and 9G, (0.144" or 3.658mm), on the right - has the wheel been re-built this way?

You don't say who re-built your wheel but I'd pick the phone up to The Devon Rim Company to see if they are aware of this issue, (be surprised if they were not), and if they have a solution in the form of oversized heads on spokes.

I'd shy away from building up the sockets with weld as the localised heat may have an adverse effect - I would consider machining the whole 'ring' of sockets and welding that to the hub once the damaged one had been removed.

Any chance of a photo of your hub showing the extent of the problem?

Regards Mick
John Jarrett
Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: MIDDLESEX UK

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by John Jarrett »

For information here is a picture of one of my wheels to show the washers on the spokes on the small flange.
Single Sided Front wheel spoke arrangement.jpg
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hatrack
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:36 pm
Location: Somerset

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by hatrack »

Thanks guys.
I can't check the guage of the spokes that have been fitted as I have got the wheel all packed up ready for collection this morning.
But that difference in guage on the off side could be the answer. I'll pass it on the the man doing the job.
I'm slightly wary of letting him have it back to fix, but if he sorts it out, it is quicker and no extra expense, but I am going make sure he does it right this time.
Washers as an original fitment? Not sure. Though admittedly its a pretty sure fix.
John Jarrett
Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: MIDDLESEX UK

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by John Jarrett »

Have a look in the 52 Spares book http://archives.jampot.dk/book/Spares_l ... ingles.pdf ... page 50 - item 000039, washer, plain for right side spoke heads x 20.
hatrack
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:36 pm
Location: Somerset

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by hatrack »

I have just looked through Roy Bacon's Restoration Book. nothing in the text that I can find, but pictures;
Page 14 Press test photo of 1949 G3LC with the washers clearly visable.
Page 19 Harry Louis with his 1951 ISDT G9 with washers clearly visable.
All other picture show either no washers or are indistinct.
But if it was done back then, its good enough for me, if the thicker spoke gauge dosn't do the trick
John Jarrett
Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: MIDDLESEX UK

Re: Single sided hub spoke problem

Post by John Jarrett »

Interesting.... re-reading the spares book, I am not sure whether it was only specified for the competition models.
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