Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
- Taid
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Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
Very much a follow on from my previous plea, but needs its own thread.
When removing the wheel for work on the brake, I felt the wheel did not spin freely, and could detect no play at the rim, so while waiting for the return of the relined shoes I decided to investigate ..
It was difficult to turn the spindle, and silk certainly didn't enter the equation as an indication of smoothness, so I figured the bearing setting was too tight.
I released the lock-ring and unscrewed the bearing adjusting ring expecting the axle then to turn quite easily, but no such occurred. Still pretty-well as tight as at the start.
OK, dismantle according to the workshop manual ..
Removed the lock-ring and adjusting ring and applied pressure to the threaded end of the spindle .. nothing moved .. using a chunk of wood as padding, I used my moderately heavy Brummigem Screwdriver (related to the Sheffield variety, but more bloody minded) to persuade it to give but still no movement ..
Having reached the limits of my workshop, please, any ideas for my next move .. I would say there is no evidence of a shortage of lubrication ..
When removing the wheel for work on the brake, I felt the wheel did not spin freely, and could detect no play at the rim, so while waiting for the return of the relined shoes I decided to investigate ..
It was difficult to turn the spindle, and silk certainly didn't enter the equation as an indication of smoothness, so I figured the bearing setting was too tight.
I released the lock-ring and unscrewed the bearing adjusting ring expecting the axle then to turn quite easily, but no such occurred. Still pretty-well as tight as at the start.
OK, dismantle according to the workshop manual ..
Removed the lock-ring and adjusting ring and applied pressure to the threaded end of the spindle .. nothing moved .. using a chunk of wood as padding, I used my moderately heavy Brummigem Screwdriver (related to the Sheffield variety, but more bloody minded) to persuade it to give but still no movement ..
Having reached the limits of my workshop, please, any ideas for my next move .. I would say there is no evidence of a shortage of lubrication ..
___
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
Hi
What you have done is correct as long as you have the original assembly, but before applying more pressure it would be prudent to check a PO hasn't installed a cartridge type bearing assembly. I've no experience of adjusting or dismantling this type but I'm sure someone who has will be along soon.
Regards Mick
What you have done is correct as long as you have the original assembly, but before applying more pressure it would be prudent to check a PO hasn't installed a cartridge type bearing assembly. I've no experience of adjusting or dismantling this type but I'm sure someone who has will be along soon.
Regards Mick
- Taid
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
Um ...
been reading up on cartridge ..
now realizing I didn't know what depression was ..
been reading up on cartridge ..
now realizing I didn't know what depression was ..
___
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
The deeper the hole the more elation when you climb outTaid wrote:now realizing I didn't know what depression was ..
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
just checking, have you removed the threaded sleeve the brake plate fits over, if not whatever bearing type you have it will never come out, .
Matt.
Matt.
- Taid
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
Yes .. all removed including seal and cup and seal retaining washer ..MATT wrote:just checking, have you removed the threaded sleeve the brake plate fits over, if not whatever bearing type you have it will never come out, .
Matt.
Have found on ebay somebody called Vintage Bearings item 264358197908 .. which is claimed to be a replacement for AMC part number 012815 .. but if I've got a cartridge unit, would the hub have been altered ,, always assuming I can get what's in there now , out
___
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
- Duncan
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
The cartridge bearing is a direct replacement and needs no modification or adjustment.
If you are lucky your problem is probably only old set grease, I always use heat to remove the bearings do not try to hammer them out as it will damage the tapered roller bearing surface and rendering them u/s. So long as they are not notchy they should still be serviceable, I have freed a totally seized set with heat and penetrating fluid over a period of several sessions, the grease does get a bit messy once it starts flowing.
If you are lucky your problem is probably only old set grease, I always use heat to remove the bearings do not try to hammer them out as it will damage the tapered roller bearing surface and rendering them u/s. So long as they are not notchy they should still be serviceable, I have freed a totally seized set with heat and penetrating fluid over a period of several sessions, the grease does get a bit messy once it starts flowing.
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
The front wheel bearing arrangement that AMC came up with, like the inaccessible placing of the dynamo on their singles is another one of Plumsteads abominations in my opinion. The 'moveable' outer bearing race that provides for adjustment is often held far too tightly in the hub and as Duncan says, requires heat to avoid damage when removing it.
When you checked your spindle was the wheel out of the forks? If it was you may well find that thanks to the drag/grip of the seals it will feel very stiff and no play at the rim could be felt. The tightness of those seals will mask a lot of play, even when you thnk youve adjusted it out (or'in'). I found on my latest bike, a 16MS, it took 3 attempts to get the bearing adjusted correctly, each time it having to be mounted in the forks to check it and get it right. Holding the spindle in a vice and trying to rock the rim during adjustment didnt do the trick. When tightening the bearing I found that simply screwing in the adjuster wasnt enough to shift the outer race inwards and it was necessary to ease it in by alternately tapping the adjuster and then taking up the slack by turning it.
You may have gathered that Im not a fan of the arangement - fortunately the rest of the bike makes up for it. I only wish that the bearing arrangement had been considered by a mechanic rather than a designer
Steve
When you checked your spindle was the wheel out of the forks? If it was you may well find that thanks to the drag/grip of the seals it will feel very stiff and no play at the rim could be felt. The tightness of those seals will mask a lot of play, even when you thnk youve adjusted it out (or'in'). I found on my latest bike, a 16MS, it took 3 attempts to get the bearing adjusted correctly, each time it having to be mounted in the forks to check it and get it right. Holding the spindle in a vice and trying to rock the rim during adjustment didnt do the trick. When tightening the bearing I found that simply screwing in the adjuster wasnt enough to shift the outer race inwards and it was necessary to ease it in by alternately tapping the adjuster and then taking up the slack by turning it.
You may have gathered that Im not a fan of the arangement - fortunately the rest of the bike makes up for it. I only wish that the bearing arrangement had been considered by a mechanic rather than a designer
Steve
- Taid
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
Greybeard wrote:.........................
When you checked your spindle was the wheel out of the forks? ......................................................- fortunately the rest of the bike makes up for it. I only wish that the bearing arrangement had been considered by a mechanic rather than a designer
Steve
It was still in the forks when I first noticed .. I was getting quite severe vibration as I approached 50ish mph and was wondering about balance, so tipped it back on the centre stand and spun (or rather tried to spin the wheel) .. it slowed rapidly, but no sound of brake binding .. I was planning to get new tyres and relined brakes so decided to investigate when I took the wheel out for that ..
___
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
Now sold ... 1956 AJS 16MS Bitsa .. HSU 414 .. rebuilt/re-registered 1987
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Re: Still in unknown territory .. Front spindle
That was very similar to the symptoms I was getting between adjustments. The wheel slowed rapidly and as it slowed there was a distinct judder which only disappeared as the bearing adjustment became correct. From what youre saying it will be well worth dismantling to check on the bearings and state of the grease, but be aware that even when properly set up with fresh grease there is still likely to be significant drag from the seals. Fingers crossed that youll find the bearings are ok - as youve discovered, replacements are rather pricey.
Steve
Steve