Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Information relating to the Matchless G2 or AJS Model 14 250cc Lightweight
pecon
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Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by pecon »

I decided to remove the primary chain case to check the clutch which has a very heavy action and found it as seen in the photo. The setup looks distinctly odd given that the pressure plate is touching a corked plate half way across its diameter. The plates were fitted as follows, pressure plate, cork, plain, cork, a total of three of each until the final one which was half cork and the rear side touching the basket, plain steel. The pressure plate is five inches in diameter and the clutch rod adjusting nut also looks like something from the parts bin. I have a copy of the owners manual and it seems to show the pressure plate touching the cork plate but doing a search I have seen photos of it touching a plain steel plate. Can anyone comment on what I should have?
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by Rob Harknett »

What year/model is the bike you refer to. Your profile shows you have a mod 14 but you ask a question about a CSR?????
pecon
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by pecon »

Hello Rob

You might remember my first post titled "I've just bought a Model 14"?. Well from informed members, including yourself and the dating service, it turned out to have started life as a 1960 G5 fitted with a 14/CSR engine and front end which is why I entered my query as a CSR. Just to add to the confusion I have a question elswhere on the frame in the G5 forum.

Peter
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Ozmadman
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by Ozmadman »

pecon wrote:I decided to remove the primary chain case to check the clutch which has a very heavy action and found it as seen in the photo. The setup looks distinctly odd given that the pressure plate is touching a corked plate half way across its diameter. The plates were fitted as follows, pressure plate, cork, plain, cork, a total of three of each until the final one which was half cork and the rear side touching the basket, plain steel. The pressure plate is five inches in diameter and the clutch rod adjusting nut also looks like something from the parts bin. I have a copy of the owners manual and it seems to show the pressure plate touching the cork plate but doing a search I have seen photos of it touching a plain steel plate. Can anyone comment on what I should have?
I thought the CSR had the same clutch set up as a G5 but I don't have a late parts list to check that, if so it should metal to pressure plate (plain metal both sides) even if it is like the CS clutch which has two single sided plated then the metal should still be to the pressure plate.. here's picture of mine PS how many plates do you have and how many are plain, single or double sided?? Where's the oil?? that shouldn't be rusty :?:
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Paul
1960 Model 8
1974 Yamaha RD250B US Model 6 speed
pecon
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by pecon »

Hi Paul

" it should metal to pressure plate (plain metal both sides) "

Thats what I expected but thats not the way mine are fitted. Logic would say that the pressure plate presses against a metal one.

"how many plates do you have and how many are plain, single or double sided?"

I have three each of double sided cork, three plain and one double sided. Any idea what the total should be in the CSR 250?.

"Where's the oil?? that shouldn't be rusty"

Ah, when I removed the cover not a drop was there, perhaps something to do with the fact that there was no gasket fitted, only some silicon?.
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Janet
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by Janet »

Paul, Clanger9 has posted on the G5* section that he's been trying to compile information about the 250 clutch variations. The 250 CSRs seem to have different setups from -er- the 250CSRs, depending on the year of manufacture.

EDIT *
clanger9 wrote:I had a go at trying to make sense of all the Lightweight gearbox & transmission variations.
Link here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!Au7XMUF8xm1UkBPuy8KOlpb2M4uS
[this should open in Excel Online - not sure if it'll work for everyone, but I can't post Excel attachments here...]

What do you think? It's probably full of errors, but it's almost beginning to make sense to me... :headbang:

This is a compilation of what I've been able to obtain from Christian's archives, plus the insights and advice on this here forum (especially from Ozmadman and John Jarrett), plus my own corrections to the more obvious mistakes in the factory parts lists and workshop manuals.

Anybody spot any obvious errors? There's definitely something amiss with the 1966 CSR gearbox part numbers, because these are supposed to be close ratio, but I can't find these part numbers anywhere. Also, if anyone could provide teeth counts or other identifying marks, or just check the info against their own bike that'd be ace!

[edit: I think the part numbers are now correct for all models, including the last of the CSRs. If someone has a late CSR box in bits, please could you count how many teeth your 4th layshaft gear has?]
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clanger9
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by clanger9 »

Yes, CSR clutches are different to the G5 (despite what it says in the manual!)

Try this link and look for the clutch plates for your bike. It shows the plates in order (from outermost to innermost) and I'm reasonably confident it's correct. If anyone knows otherwise, please shout! Lightweight transmissions aren't straightforward...

https://1drv.ms/x/s!Au7XMUF8xm1UkBPuy8KOlpb2M4uS
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
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Rob Harknett
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by Rob Harknett »

pecon wrote:Hello Rob

You might remember my first post titled "I've just bought a Model 14"?. Well from informed members, including yourself and the dating service, it turned out to have started life as a 1960 G5 fitted with a 14/CSR engine and front end which is why I entered my query as a CSR. Just to add to the confusion I have a question elswhere on the frame in the G5 forum.

Peter
I am active in more than this forum Peter, prewar officer for the club + monitor/answer to a prewar yahoo group. Maybe 20 actions a day. So I cannot recall all the people and what bikes they have. Also still get phone calls and letters. So I am still guessing with clues you have given, am I correct in remembering your engine was 1965. Now everyone can see the clutch. So first that needs to be identified. So you can be advised on what you should have. I am sure there is a member out there, more knowledgeable than I, that will advise about the clutch.
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clanger9
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by clanger9 »

PS: check your front sprocket is the right way round. It's hard to tell from the photo, but if there's no gap between the chain and the alternator rotor then it's the wrong way round...
1989 Moto Morini Dart 350
1993 Ducati 750SS
pecon
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Re: Clutch plate setup on the 250 CSR

Post by pecon »

Well spotted Clanger9, no gap at all, in fact I would not be surprised if they were actually touching. Thanks to all for the parts listing, I'll print it off and see if I can make sense of what I have.

Peter
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