gearbox whine

[greasemonkey62]

This looks nothing like my gearbox bearing? the second pic is taken through the inside of the gearbox I think yes? the bearing looks absolutely nothing like mine, I have no idea how this works maybe the gear type fitted by the owner in 2010 (Roy Rooke who was member 18335) in this club then can enlighten us all but the bearing in my gearbox looks nothing like the one pictured here, I think I will re-assemble and run it without the spacer oil seal and see what happens as I think it has an oil seal in it somehow, I wish I had photographed it inside when I had it stripped down now, I suspect it will be fine (fingers crossed) as it was only leaking from the kickstart shaft seal, mind you the oil level was about 2 inches lower than it is now as I have now filled it to the brim of the inspection window, but there is only one way to find out and thats to try it out, if it does not work and oil pours out I can always rename it the Torre Canyon. Then strip it down and attempt to remedy it.
What is the recommended fill level there are two different instructions in my paperwork on this, one is an inch below the inspection window, the other says up to the bottom lip of the inspection window??
Looking at the top photo with the 20 tooth sprocket what is the clearance between the sprocket and the bush plug to the right of the sprocket on this photo??

Curiouser and curiouser Ray.
I have sent you an e mail too by the way.

[Ozmadman]

BTW the measurements are as follows.... O/D = 33mm.... I/D = 29mm....O/D across the flange = 35mm and depth = 10mm

[Ozmadman]

This looks nothing like my gearbox bearing? the second pic is taken through the inside of the gearbox I think yes? the bearing looks absolutely nothing like mine, I have no idea how this works maybe the gear type fitted by the owner in 2010 (Roy Rooke who was member 18335) in this club then can enlighten us all but the bearing in my gearbox looks nothing like the one pictured here, I think I will re-assemble and run it without the spacer oil seal and see what happens as I think it has an oil seal in it somehow, I wish I had photographed it inside when I had it stripped down now, I suspect it will be fine (fingers crossed) as it was only leaking from the kickstart shaft seal, mind you the oil level was about 2 inches lower than it is now as I have now filled it to the brim of the inspection window, but there is only one way to find out and thats to try it out, if it does not work and oil pours out I can always rename it the Torre Canyon. Then strip it down and attempt to remedy it.
What is the recommended fill level there are two different instructions in my paperwork on this, one is an inch below the inspection window, the other says up to the bottom lip of the inspection window??
Looking at the top photo with the 20 tooth sprocket what is the clearance between the sprocket and the bush plug to the right of the sprocket on this photo??

Curiouser and curiouser Ray.
I have sent you an e mail too by the way.

Yes, that was taken from inside of the box. At least we are getting somewhere!!! obviously something was wrong with the box at some point probably a worn bearing track on the output shaft or something and a workaround was done. Your oil level should be up as far as you can get it before it comes out of that inspection window to give proper lubrication to all the gears which are near the top of the box (rubbish design!). Got your mail, do you still want the spacer just in case? and I will hold fire on stripping my old box then as it won't really help unless you intend to try to get it back to original, as for the gap between the sprocket and end cap... I will measure the other box tomorrow as the one in the picture is now on the bike. Come back and let me know how you got on, hopefully it will be ok, if not we can try to sort it out.. thanks Paul

[Ozmadman]

The gap between the back of the sprocket and the end cap which is level with the casing is 5mm

Paul

[greasemonkey62]

Great stuff, yes I will have the spacer please.
To be honest it came to me over my cornflakes today, as the sprocket fits exactly where it should be then its obvious the clever Mr Rooke didn't have a spacer so he has found something that fits exactly and acts as a seal but looks and fits like a bearing, the only way to be 100% certain what this is, is to strip out the box again and knock out the seal/bearing fitted in the outer recess from the inside of the box, but I will hang fire on that one, looking back I should have realised that if the sprocket fitted where it should be and bang in line with the rear sprocket then something is fitted in the outer recess to facilitate this, I wish Mr Rooke had put this in his notes with the bike, something I will do myself today.
Its been a bit like war and peace an epic story but with an indefinite ending as we are still not sure what is fitted in there and it could be a big step forward from the original spacer and oil seal set up.

Many thanks Ray.

[Ozmadman]

Ok, I willl send it to you... if you ever bite the bullet and strip it down again I for one would be extremely interested to see what he has done, might, as you say, even be an improvement. Just to ask one more question.... We have concentrated on the spacer seal scenario but what do you have as the main bearing as you said yours didn't look like the picture I posted ? Has he also done a mod on that then?

Paul

[greasemonkey62]

I think so, if ever it needs stripping down again I will photograph the procedure and the bearings and post on the site, I am intrigued about what type of bearing/seal he has put in there but will do the job as and when it needs it, I took the head and barrel off and the barrel base gasket was a home made cardboard one that was past its best and was very brittle and had soaked up plenty of oil, the head gasket was a full metal one not the compression ring and composite material one the club supply, so I have fitted a new base gasket and a new head gasket I think the signs were that the head gasket was weeping from the drain tunnel into the cylinder as there was a scar there, so the head is on and torqued to 35ft lb in 5lb steps, I will recheck tomorrow as they can settle, a new 200W alternator is on its way as the one fitted I think is the original and some connecting wires between the coils look in a sorry state, it already has an A reg one regulator/rectifier fitted so when the alternator arrives its a quick job to fit and be up and away again, hopefully that will be all for now, as plenty of riding to be done now the weather is milder.

Cheers Ray

[Ozmadman]

I had a helluva problem trying to get a solid copper head gasket to seal, even a new one which I had as a spare. After about 7 attempts I gave up and resorted to a composite one as you have. I torqued it down, ran it until warm, stationary, let it cool overnight and then re-torqued it and have had no problems since. The 35lbft is only for the four main head bolts, the smaller long 5/16" bolt should just be tightened up with care. Good luck....

[greasemonkey62]

yes I have been advised to heat the copper head gasket up with a blow lamp until glowing red then leave to cool to soften it for reuse, dunno if it works though, its one thing after another with this bike, the silencer had a rattle so I took off the exhaust pipe and a ten inch pipe fell out of the silencer !!! its cured the rattle though! the pic of the pipe is on the photos now.
when I was reassembling the clutch I noticed on the diagram there are three bonded plates yet on this one there are four plain and four bonded !!!! the outer bonded plate was bonded both sides and getting a groove in it from the outer spring keep plates edge, what is the next thing wrong I wonder?

[Ozmadman]

yes I have been advised to heat the copper head gasket up with a blow lamp until glowing red then leave to cool to soften it for reuse, dunno if it works though, its one thing after another with this bike, the silencer had a rattle so I took off the exhaust pipe and a ten inch pipe fell out of the silencer !!! its cured the rattle though! the pic of the pipe is on the photos now.
when I was reassembling the clutch I noticed on the diagram there are three bonded plates yet on this one there are four plain and four bonded !!!! the outer bonded plate was bonded both sides and getting a groove in it from the outer spring keep plates edge, what is the next thing wrong I wonder?

Tried all of that with the head gasket but gave up, kept on leaking oil out of that small oil feed hole, stick with a composite before you have a nervous breakdown. The correct layout for the 350 clutch is 4x friction plates (friction both sides) 1x stepped metal plate and 4x metal plates. The first plate engine end is a stepped metal plate(step outwards) then a friction then a metal, friction metal, friction metal, friction metal... Then the diaphragm with the 3 adjuster screws in it. Looks like your diagram must be for a 250 version which has less plates but can't think why he had used a friction plate on the outside, I think on the 250 the outer plate should be friction one side but plain on the other. That pipe sounds like the baffle in the silencer, but then looking at the picture it looks like another botch?? I don't have any baffle in mine as it a pattern silencer but it sounds great!