How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Information relating to the Matchless G15 or AJS Model 33 750cc twin. This also includes the G15 Mk II and the G15/45
BillTS3
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How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by BillTS3 »

Does anyone here have an idea of how many variants there were of this series, and in approximately what numbers they were built?

My research tells me the original G15/45 was only 1962-63. Was there an AJS version?

This was followed by the first hybrid, the G15CS 'N'. Was this marketed as only Norton, or was there a Matchless variant?

After the initial run, the Norton variant was only the N15CS, though there are bikes in this country titled as Norton, with G15CS stamped on the engine case. I've heard that after the collapse of AMC, these bikes were shipped with two sets of badges, and could be sold as either Norton or Matchless, regardless of the stamping. Is there any credence to this?

When did the G15 MkII come out? did the 33 go on sale at the same time?

Same question for the G15CSR and 33CSR.

Was there ever a 33CS?

According to the NOC website, there were approximately 5000 of this collection of hybrids built, and I've heard that perhaps half were N15s.
Does this mean all the other variants total about 2500?

I'm making a display board for my G15CS, and I'd like to provide accurate information about the whole development of this series.

Cheers,
Bill Tracy
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Rob Harknett
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by Rob Harknett »

33 introduced Sept. 1964. 33CSR Nov 1964. both discontinued Aug 1967. No 33CS
G15 & G15CSR introduced on same dates as AJS above, G15CS introduced April 1967, G15 became G15mk. 11. Sept 1967.
All discontinued Oct. 1967. Both marques shared the same number series, AJS stopped 100 before Matchless. This relates to home market only, there may had been variations in particular via the Indian m. c. company
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John Donne
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by John Donne »

Of the Norton variants there were 200 Norton Atlas Scramblers made and dispatched in October and November 1963. These went from engine and frame numbers 107388 to 107587. They all went to either Berliner, New York and Berliner, Seattle, USA. There was the G15P, of which only 3 were made and dispatched and one of these is shown in the records as an AJS. There was the N15CS, and the first one disptched was in January 1964. There is three N15CSR's shown, but the R is crossed out so it must have been a miss print. The Matchless versions, were the G15 Mk2, G15CS, G15CSR cafe racer, and the G15CSR street scrambler from 123366 that was dispatched September Janaury 1967. Of this variant only 95 were produced. The earlier or 1964 versions were shown as G15CS (N) and G15CS(M) or scrambler version of the Norton and Matchless. The AJS version was the 33CSR, and the 33Std, or Mk2. There never was any AJS version of the G15CS, no matter what the Girling brochure shows for one, or the Lucas electrical lists. I did a while ago sit down and go through the whole lot and count all the different type, and how many were made, but i have some gaps to contend with so it may not be that accuate.
There were also four versions of the P11.
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Rob Harknett
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by Rob Harknett »

John, when you refer to "Versions" does that relate to changes made, but the machine still has the same model number.
I have details of mid year and yearly changes as given to the press by AMC. This is for all marques and models of British bikes for the home market.
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by BillTS3 »

Thanks for the replies.

If I'm reading this right, are you saying the G15CS was only sold as a 1967-68 model?
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Rob Harknett
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by Rob Harknett »

The G15CS was introduced April 1967 similar to G15CSR but with different gears 2 1/4 gallon tank & trails tyres.
September G15CS continued ( that's the start of the 68 model year. ) Oct 1967 G15 CS discontinues.
Not a very long production run 5 months 1967 production, then One month into the 1968 model year it was droped.
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by G15 Roy »

Rob where do you get this from (The G15CS was introduced April 1967 similar to G15CSR) as my G15CS left the foctory in September 1965. As did so many more.
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by Rob Harknett »

Not according to information released by AMC to the motor trade Roy, The G15 was introduced in September 1964, that would be the start of the 1965 model year. G15CSR introduced November 1964. September 1967 ( 68 model year ) G15 now known as G15 mk11. I just rechecked , also in 2 other 1960's trade publications they all state the same. Also first frame and engine numbers were 120445BUT The G15 mk 11 and G15CS both appear in the 1965 sales cat. Those sort of error's must and still do cause a lot of confusion. Imagine if you wrote off your brand new G15CS in 1965, the insurance company look in the trade price guide book and find there's no such model listed. I am sure the Matchless sales cat is correct. The 1965 bike would had started production September 1964, so you could also have a 1965 model registered late 1964. These errors are still being made, when I wrote off a car a few years ago I was offered the value of a lower spec model. I checked with a friend in the trade, my car model was not listed. So I refused the offer. I said to the insurance company they must had inspected the car, what model did they find it was. They agreed I was correct, they wrote to " Glass's " My insurance sent me a copy of their reply stating the value my model was £5,500 which was £2, 000 more than the offer first made, which was for the lower spec model.
I thought that was very fare of the insurance company to show me the letter and agree to pay the increased price. They did not quibble that I only had insurance on a lower value model, as I did state the model I had , and it was shown on my insurance.
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by Rob Harknett »

Just a thought? Were the 65 G15CS export only, I do see reference of them in American market sales cats. So these would not appear in the reference books that list only to British market machines.
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John Donne
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Re: How many variants of the G15/33/N15?

Post by John Donne »

The first G15CS was stamped on a Norton badged Atlas Scrambler crankcase, 107388, and this was dispatched in November 1963. So the engine number would have been stamped as G15CS/107388. The first G15CS dispatched was 108638 and this was dispatched in January 1964. As for versions the 1963, is different to the 1964, which is different to the 1965, and to the 1966, and to the 1967. The last G15CS was 124371 and it was dispatched in April 1968. This is as per the AMC dispatch records.
The G15CSR's also differed in specifications from year to year. The later G15CS models differed in their ignition systems, fork internals, mudguards, dual seats, and many other smaller detailed improvements.They were more of a street scrambler than an off road bike by 1967, but could be still used on the dirt track races at the time, but when the P11 came along the G15CS became the road bike, and the P11 the desert or dirt track racer of choice.
There were many N15CS, and G15CS models sold in England in 1969 and 1970, via Gus Kuhn Motors, and Elite Motors in South London. I worked at Gus Kuhn Motors in 1969 to 1970, asnd saw them new for sale in our show room, and the new owners also arrived at our shop for their parts on their new N15CS's and G15CS's. This was where all the G15, N15 madness started for me. 8-)
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