Primary chain wear - P11

Information relating to the Matchless G15 or AJS Model 33 750cc twin. This also includes the G15 Mk II and the G15/45
Groily
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by Groily »

Thanks for that John. Highish miles are part of my routine, but not necessarily on the P. Was thinking about a belt drive, but honestly don't think I'll go there. The possible hassle with the footrest hanger and the brake pedal, awful side stand etc etc from putting a spacer between the cases to accommodate the belt put me off, plus the fact the chain - a Renolds - looks fine so far. If it has to have a chain every now and then, fair enough, but I haven't found primary chains to be a major problem in my life so far. Never had a 'proper' Norton either (my P's a 'Matchless') so can't comment on dommies.
Thinking of when rollers break because the gearbox gets yanked back - I had just that problem big time on another of the marque (including killing a chain in short order), and my permanent fix was to make a chunky chain adjuster puller/pusher and locknut arrangement on the rh side top bolt (AMC box) to work in tandem with the feebler original bit on t'other. Hasn't budged a millimeter since, just takes a bit longer to set up (and had to pierce a suitable 'ole in the rh gearbox mounting plate to attach things to).
Don Madden
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by Don Madden »

The 1960-up G80CS models have dual adjusters fitted. Not only hold the adjustment better but allow tweaking to better align the crankshaft & G/B mainshaft parallel. Parts may be available as the two adjusters are the same but a longer top bolt is required. Cheers, Don.
Groily
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by Groily »

And thanks for that Don, I had no idea the factory had been there, done that and I hadn't got the T shirt.
Re the longer fastener - good catch, I'd forgotten I'd needed to make that. But anyway, worth the effort to do the simple mod, I thought. As Mr Bugatti allegedly said, 'If it Looks Right, It Probably Is'. Or was it 'Wrong' . . .
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TommoT
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by TommoT »

quote:
The 1960-up G80CS models have dual adjusters fitted. Not only hold the adjustment better but allow tweaking to better align the crankshaft & G/B mainshaft parallel. Parts may be available as the two adjusters are the same but a longer top bolt is required. Cheers, Don.


Yes Don, I have made that modification to my humble 1956 G80S after several experiences with the final chain yanking the gearbox. As Groily say, takes a few more minutes to adjust, but no movement after that. I don't consider myself heavy handed with the throttle, but every now and then, I do like to use what is available on the tap
TommoT

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John Donne
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by John Donne »

The adjuster with the across the gearbox adjuster, is a simple fit, and i suspect if you have the right part number you could still get that top across the gearbox adjuster. I think i got my one from Russell Motors, as Geoff told me about it, so i bought one. It would also retro fit the other AMC twins. It may also be available from Accessory Mart or Domiracer, in Cincinatti, as they bought all the ex Berliner stock of factory parts when Berliner finally close their doors. Jim at Jampot Spares my also have them in stock. As for the P11 being a Matchless well that is a mute point. Dealers and Berliner would change badges to suit their markets. I know Leo Goff did it, as he told me, if Matchless sold better he would do that. The dispatch records that were held at the Science museum did not show Norton or Matchless. But the factory produced build book for all the Norton models from 1968 to 1969 does tell another story.This also goes for the first Atlas Scramblers, that were sold as Norton's by Berliner, and the engine the first on was stamped G15CS/107388. The Matchless G15CSR was called the Norton 750ss by Berliner of BMC, and it was also listed by Berliner as a production racer. The factory also experimented with different colours schemes for the later P11's, in blue & white, and orange & white, and also different colour seats. This was done on the later P11A models, and these colour schemes do make the P11A models really work, and look incredably spectacula. It was a shame that the production was stopped, by Norton Matchless, but Berliner still wanted as many as the factory could make as the P11 was such a huge seller. I have 5 of them and enough parts to build another 2, if i can get some more frames.
Groily
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by Groily »

'M' or 'N'? Just badge engineering really, hence my inverted commas somewhere above.
I tend to think 'name follows frame' rather than 'motor maketh marque' but it makes no odds at all. The models seem as welcome here in this club as they do in the NOC, so they really are Straddlers. I'm seriously bi-polar about mine to be honest, not knowing what it should be called - just that I like it! Very hard to explain what it actually is in a country where there can't be more than a very small handful and almost no-one's ever heard of a P11, PIIA, Ranger etc.
Thanks for extra info re the adjuster, might have a look and see what extra bits are actually available rather than fabricating more DIY parts.Edited by - Groily on 14 May 2011 9:12:30 PM
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John Donne
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by John Donne »

There are four models of P11. The P11 high pipe, single seat models, the P11A, then the P11A Ranger, and the P11A Ranger 750. The P11A Ranger 750 went from engine/frame/gearbox number 128646 to 129145. The P11A Ranger 750 was the only one of the series to have the eng/frame/gearbox with the same number. A good way of knowing if the Ranger 750 you have bought is a correct one of the series. The P11A would be between 124 and early 125, then later 125 to 126123, or last P11A so that would be a P11A Ranger. The earlier P11A's had alloy oil tanks, alloy mudguards, and some other different parts. The factory produced four different sales brochures for the P11 series, they were produced from March 1967 through to October 1968, or 121007 to 129145, with the G15CS, N15CS, G15CSR, G15Mk2, 650ss, Altlas, and Norton Commando in between. As for clubs accepting these models, well at one time there was a very distinct feeling of, can you park it away from the proper factory bikes, and of this i have had many bad experiences concerning my CS's and my P11 models.
mdt-son
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by mdt-son »

To relieve the primary drive, I plan to install a duplex primary chain on mine, using a 22T duplex sprocket off the lightweights.
I am still in the planning how to modify the clutch basket. A Commando clutch isn't the answer as I want to retain the cush drive. Maybe a sprocket ring can be welded on or secured by interference fitting. In the long run a new type of clutch has to go in,

Knut SonstebyEdited by - mdt-son on 07 Feb 2012 9:37:24 PM
rockin
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by rockin »

Hi,

New to the forum and i'm currently restoring a 1968 P11 and was wondering if anyone has any info regarding the thickness of the spacer between the crankcase and inner chaincase

thanks in advance

Rockin
g80csp11
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Primary chain wear - P11

Post by g80csp11 »

set of engne bolts and spacers on ebay now if you need them , not sure who manufacrured them bu obviously had a number made
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