37/12 AJS (Further info)

Information relating to Matchless and AJS Models built prior to 1939
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Richard Prisgrove.
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by Richard Prisgrove. »

Evening All..

Further to my post earlier with regards to the above mentioned AJ, I have procured this little bike, or in the words of the 'seller', "Your it's custodian for the next 10 to 15 years". Now I am interested in learning more about the puzzling (to me) wee bike that has spent the last 10 years in its own little light and moisture free ‘grotto’.

A word picture, as best I can…

It is a 1937 AJS 37/12 250cc ... magneto ignition...The rest of the engine number on the English DOT vehicle registration form for 1982 is 35305, however the last 'number' is approx 1 to 2 centimetre from the zero, and clearly looks like an 's' ... the numbers on the gearbox (which looks “oh so the same” as the one that’s fitted to my Model 16 Sunbeam) is 7HPBD 17970…from this DOT document and the 3 DOT Test Certificates (1979, 1980, &1982) that come with the bike, I believe it was restored / refurbished in 1980/82 (in Yeovil, England, but it’s thought the Gent who did the work may have since passed away) @ 22,700 miles...Still has the English registration plate fitted to the back, FMV 991…The restorer / refersisher has painted the following “1937 AJS 250cc S” on what I suppose was the plate originally destined for a front registration plate.

The bike then was imported to Australia 1984 and since has added 3,500 miles...last ridden 1993...all electrics work just fine, and as far as I can ascertain, like the rest of the bike all the components where ‘refurbished’ at the same time ...it is in extremely good condition without any rust (apart from at the very end, approx 3 to 5cm of the rear mudguard, which has been cleaned, and an anti-corrosion treatment applied, and a mud-flap fitted)…the paint has very few 1 to 5mm scratches, but the all the ‘black’ has a lovely lustre...In a word I think this is an interesting ‘companion’ for my Beam.

ANY thoughts please, are welcome.

Regards, Richard
[:)]

33d6
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by 33d6 »

No great drama Richard, prewar 250 stuff is fairly common here in OZ. There are various enthusiast groups catering for the little beastie and there is an active pre war AJS & Matchless Yahoo group that will keep you informed on running your bike.
Where do you live in OZ?

itma
Posts: 7721
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: UK

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by itma »

I owned FMV 991 back in the 1970`s but I can`t remember what I did with it, it`s possible it`s the one I sold to a chap in kent, in the Medway area, if so I may have a photo of it somewhere, don`t hold your breath though.
The yahoo site is full of info for the older stuff, but on this site you don`t get your ears bitten off if you invite them out for a ride,[except for janet who just bites]
beware the viper in the nest on that site down under.
it`s not often you hear of the later life of your past bikes, good luck with it.
Richard Prisgrove.
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by Richard Prisgrove. »

Mornin' All...

Sorry 'bout the slow reply...I've been UP in Sydney for 'Edinburgh' Military Tattoo...brilliant[:D]...so I guess that's clue to what part of Oz I am in, Melbourne.

Thankyou very much for the responses, VERY much appreciated because I am very keen to establish a history on this bike as it's preservation / condition is simply superb.

Robert, is there a web site for yahoo related AJ / Matchie info? I have spent many hours on search engines, but must admit any connections to a yahoo related site evades me.

Ken, I'd be only too pleased to forward some pics on, but they will need to wait for a 'til next week.

Have been able to gather a little more 'out of' wee bike last week and since going over it in detail...I'll try and be as objective as I can in regards to location, as my knowledge of UK geography is on par with that of Uzbekistan...the last 'registered' owner I have of the bike was in 1979, and he lived in Lilleshall, Newport Shropshire...this is courtesy of the Department of Transport, Vehicle Registration Document which was issued in Yeovil...(I have absolutely no idea where these locations are).

In addition I have 3 'Test Certificates' issues in...July '79 Thomas's Brookside Garage, Penzance : Oct '82 Wylie & Holland Motorcycles, Market Drayton : & June '84 Mike Wheeler M/C Ltd, Witney Oxen.

Additionally, the magneto is explained by finding the engine number from which it came from...37/22T 3438 and again an 'S' has been stamped.

I also found a small and very tarnished brass plate attached to the front mud guard, when cleaned reads...D.J. Sheperd & Co (Enfield) Ltd - Motor Engineers (then another word that I cannot make out P or R (space) NE - Enfield 1231 - Enfield Highway.

Now for my hypothesis...open to comments, PLEASE!

I think that that above Engineers (which like English geography, I have utterly no idea about)...'speced-up' the engine to that of the competition 250 of the time, and simply called it a Sports 250 and added the large 'S' to the left side of the engine case, and the entire engine number together with the small 's' from the engine it came from to the magneto timing cover. The '5' on the DOT Rego document is mistake...Alternatively, this is all a load of twat, and the bike was simple slapped together in the factory like most British bikes of the day.

Either way I am intrigued to why someone in the early 80's went to sooo much trouble to preserve / restore what I would have regarded as a "why would you bother with it" 250 AJS. Even the majority of the screws that are used, have their heads all aligned!

One of you Poms has got to a LOT of trouble...and I appreciate it!

Regards, Richard
[:)]

itma
Posts: 7721
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: UK

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by itma »

hello richard,
The bike I sold to the chap in Kent was a Matchless 250; DHX 44, it seems, but the plate on your front guard I remember, and I think I can now begin to place this one in my dim memory and it may well be one of several bikes I restored for a bloke in Surrey.
No offence intended, but why does everybody down under seem to get so worked up about casting numbers?
The S denotes nothing more than a "sports" spec ie its got a magneto instead of the really bad coil ign set-up that was the cheaper option,and the decent g/box.
There are all sorts of enigmatic marks to be had, but which are nothing to get excited about; you can find A or B which denotes amal or bowden levers fitted, but which is often at variance with originality; T=trials; or R which gets the uninformed at autojumbles thinking RACER!! but which are merely WD cases with a roller timing side bearing;plus others
Your hypothesis is wonderfully rose-tinted but the reality is its a bog standard 250 AJS but for all that a good little bike for the time. absolutly nothing comp. or special about it at all.[ now if you had a silver streak......! !!] but you are right about the S/5 it often happens and can be a pain to get corrected here.
Bit confused about your magneto numbers, are you saying that the mag is numbered, or that you have another set of cases? its not normal to match the mag no`s to the motor.
But given that some people have full sets of number stamp in the workshop, slips can be made... nudge wink?
Why go to so much trouble for a `cooking` 250? you have to recall that the 70`s and early 80`s here were mad years for bike prices and all sorts of people were trying frantically to get onto the band wagon,you could sell any old wreck for daft money,and a lot of speculators were well stitched up.[not by me I hastento add]and lost a lot of money when they tried to sell.
If i`ve correctly identified the buyer of this bike he was one of those speculators, but I think he moved this one on quick, among others i restored a flat tank ajs for him which he paid me to deliver to his girl friends home in S Germany, 17 hrs in an old van with no heater in feb., I can still feel the cold. When things started to go pear shaped, money wise, I could only get the cash he owed me by offering to sell his girlfriends address to his wife; it was those sort of times!! youwill find the yahoo group linked from this site, go to links, then forums and its mid left,pre war and wd ajs /matchless. seems to bedominated by several down your way, several pedantics, and a couple of "experts" but lots of picture stuff via email, I`d let you have some but can`t work the bloody scanner yet! much prefer clockwork....
As I said don`t hold me to photos, I`ve hundreds in a box, 100`s more lost...more chucked
have fun with the bike, ride it don`t fuss it.... Ken
Richard Prisgrove.
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by Richard Prisgrove. »

Evenin' Ken, Thanks for that.

Can't argue 'bout the seeming fixation with 'numbers', ya on the money...but I was more interested in what they could reveal to me about the history of the bike, and in part you have done just that.

You will need to enlighten me further with the UK geography, are any of the places that I have mentioned to date in or around Kent and Surrey?… I have no idea. Which, I might add would make my old Dad roll over in grave if he read this, as he was from Kent.

The number I quoted for the magneto have been stamped on the rear surface of the magneto drive plate, crankshaft end, in a vertical plain as the end is only approx 12mm (oops about ½”) across…first line reads 37/22…second line under the second 2 is a T…then the third line is the number 3438…and lastly on a fourth line under the 3 is the letter S…all are stamped from the same letter / number punches…Bugger, know I’m sounding like one of those Aussies you mentioned…but guess this explains the ‘rose tint’…Heck a mate of mine has been stamping number and letters on hotch potch Triumphs for years.

Ken, the info you have provide is helpful, and I think your on the right track, the bike was imported to Oz by a (then) antique Dealer around 1984...but I am loathed to site names on notice boards…I’ll forward the names to you via email with a pic or two if your interested.

Basically, I got the bike through a friend who knows a bloke etc, and as I am presently restoring a model 16 Sunbeam, he thought I would like the AJ…anyway it has not been started for 3 years, just ‘tucked up’…has wet sumped a little, so I’ll drain and change the oil…has bags of compression, spark, and fuel…so I don’t expect any probs getting it to start. I would describe it’s present condition as a testament to the restorer, it’s only visible problem is, it seems that the cush drive is trying to escape out from the primary drive cover...I’ll look at it after I get another primary drive seal…it really has polished up a treat…not a metric nut, nor unbrako to be found...sorry could help myself…if you want a pic, I’ll send you another of my real passion…that’ll explain the ‘fussiness’…and the cost to me to day in you money, eleven hundred quid…Richard


itma
Posts: 7721
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: UK

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by itma »

Hello again Richard.
No , the nearest any of these places were to Kent was my shop in SE london, tho` that was only aboout 50 yds from Kent!!!
If your dad was from Kent he`d be turning in his grave right now if he were to go back, the garden of England, that balmy sun kissed county the prettiest part of this septic isle has changed out of all recognition; I walked cycled and motor cycled all of it in my youth, now what isn`t concrete seems to be in line for being covered with crap housing for the masses, earlier this year i went back to Sevenoaks and was completely lost, could not find anywhere I knew. the best bit of Kent now is Dover, from whence one leaves for the continent: you lot down there have no idea of the luxury of space.
as for your geography lesson, if you can visualise UK, Penzance is in Cornwall, about as near to the bottom as you can get, Market D is in the middle bit about 1/2 way between Brum amd Stoke while Witney is S of Oxford and not too far from where I live in the pits of Wiltshire, nearest object of note Stonehenge. can you make any thing of that?
The test certs are interesting; I usually let my bikes go with a years test, so that would mean it left me in july 78, which may or may not fit in with my memories of it, it is sobering to realise I`m trying to recall events of a quarter of a centuary ago.
Enfield is to the north of London,then would have been semi rural now just part of the traffic jam inside the M25
Puzzled still about the numbers on the mag, perhaps it was removed to overhaul it and no`s added for id?
Has it got one or two exhausts? the 22 signifies two but these things got changed over the years. it would have cost 45 guineas when new or £47 5 shillings if my maths is right.
Of course if its one of my resto` then it goes with out saying there`s no metric threads on it, the thought leaves me cold!
I`d like to see a photo of it, my email is on site if you want to continue this natter off site, it may jog my memory, you never know. cheers ken
33d6
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by 33d6 »

Hi Richard,
Melbourne is easy, it's home for me also. The local "club" is the Matchless & AJS Enthusiasts Group of Australia that meets on the SECOND MONDAY of the month in the 3rd floor dining room at Swinburne College, Cnr Burwood Rd & John St, Hawthorn.
Ring Bill Petrie on 9306 3356 for more info if you wish.
You'll be far from alone with a 250 Ajay as there are couple of fellow travellers who think they are delightful.
If you were up in Sydney fiddling about with Tattoo stuff you must have something to do with the Services so can't be that far from Hawthorn.
Cheers, Bob

Richard Prisgrove.
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

37/12 AJS (Further info)

Post by Richard Prisgrove. »

Mornin' Ken, Bob...

Thank you both for your input, greatly appreciated...Ken I will endeavour to get a picture or two to you soon, from those you may be able to help further, but having considered your info thus far I am now leaning towards your line of thought, that is, it's a well preserved wee bike from that period, so just appreciate for what it is. I'll email you directly...Bob, received a phone call from K.Q. on the weekend, he passed on your message and contact details, thank you, I will give you a call in the evening during the week. Again, I really appreciate your input.

Thanks to both of you, but I reckon it's time to put this 'thread' to bed...Ta muchly.

Regards, Richard.

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