Electrics now an issue !

[Amb3611]

After first post rebuild run, wouldn't start easily ,ended up having to use emergency start ,fired up no probs .have now noted battery won't hold more than 4v! On testing voltage at battery terminals when running charge appears to be approx 9/10 v ? ammeter shows 8amps +. both headlamp and rear light bulbs have blown (new last year), when not running and ignition on ammeter does not move unless engine is rotated to certain position ,then shows discharge as normal, further slight rotation with kick start sees the ammeter go back to zero? is it overcharging and blown bulbs/battery or is it a stator issue ?? on checking voltage at rectifier with engine not running two wires show 2v but the centre brown wire shows 4+ is this correct?? is it a faulty rectifier? I am no electrician as you can probably gather. The battery is trickle charged off the bike and charger not showing fault but battery appears to not hold charge above 4.5v it is only a 6V 4AH battery (fitted by previous owner) so will need replacing anyway, just don't want to destroy a new one if overcharging. Any thoughts appreciated.

[Groily]

Quite a few Qs here . . .

ammeter does not move unless engine is rotated to certain position ,then shows discharge as normal, further slight rotation with kick start sees the ammeter go back to zero
Yes, that's correct, because when the points are shut they make a circuit and there's a discharge but when they're open (most of the time) there isn't a circuit.

is it overcharging and blown bulbs/battery or is it a stator issue ??
Yes it's overcharging, which is why you're seeing the huge + reading on the ammeter and the excess voltage across the battery. It's probably not a stator issue but it could possibly be that I suppose if it's an old three wire alternator which has been wired to produce full output all the time, rather than having the output controlled by the switch (according to what is switched on). It could also just be that the battery is totally duff and can't act as the sort-of shock absorber it needs to be in a primitive alternator system. It would require testing of alternator output, and of rectifier function, with engine running etc etc and a good battery in circuit to get a proper handle on what is going on. Really, with a decent battery, and if the wiring is correct and the rectifier working, you'd not want to see more than a couple of amps on the ammeter regardless of what lights were switched on.

on checking voltage at rectifier with engine not running two wires show 2v but the centre brown wire shows 4+ is this correct?? is it a faulty rectifier?
Not quite sure what that tells us. There are procedures to follow for testing these things (Google can be your friend here, but can also make confusion worse!). Replacement bridge rectifiers are pennies compared to most parts, the Club has them for a fiver or so. Easier to replace than try to figure out whether the one you have is still good. See https://www.amoc-parts.com//store/comer ... tItems.asp

The battery is a bit small, yes, - I think a standard sort of recommendation is 6Ah and up.

Things could be made simpler if you were to convert from the original wiring + basic rectifier - which may in fact have been hooked up incorrectly in some or other respect as mentioned - to a combined regulator/rectifier which is simpler to fit from the wiring point of view, but requires a bit of homework to figure exactly how. If you have a look at, eg, Paul Goff's website here, you'll see the gist of it: http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/WiringDiagBasicAlt.htm (covers 6v as well as 12v "A Reg" installations).

I have sympathy for you because I have just suffered a similar overcharging multiple bulb-blowing hissy fit on an alternator beast, and have this very day ordered up a box o' bits to reconfigure and repair the thing. But thanks to a magneto, I could get it home once I'd disconnected the charging side to avoid any possible meltdown. With coil ign, you obviously need to get things sorted!

[SPRIDDLER]

In a thread a month ago you asked about the resistor in the wiring loom as you have partially rewired the bike. When you rewired did you (inadvertently?) eliminate the resistor?
Rob Swift suggested fitting a modern regulator. What regulator do you have?

Your earlier thread is here:

viewtopic.php?p=255876#p255876

[Amb3611]

Thanks both , I think a new rectifier/ regulator is a good start as is a new battery then test etc. most of the rewiring I did was a direct replacement for worn/ damaged connectors and frayed wires etc. the only wire I did bin as it was beyond repair and solid was the translucent earth cable ( short cable to earth from battery + terminal).I didn’t find any other resistor etc so assumed it may be hidden somewhere although still not found anything. I will get some bits ordered and see what I can find. Does it never end I have had the bike nearly a year and so far rode it twice for less than 3 miles . Ah well bite the bullet and crack on.

[vigo]

I would say firstly your battery is not holding enough volts to start the bike and switching to EMG of course brings in the alternator to do the job. New batt.
Next as Spriddler says is the translucent resistor (ballast) wire in circuit because this should hold volts from 3 alternator coils until you switch headlight to ON which brings in all 6 coils.
Suggest a new batt, disconnect the alternator, start the engine and do the alternator tests detailed in the workshop manual.
PS. I see you wrote reg/rectifier well as far as I understand you wont need the ballast wire with a regulator.

[Amb3611]

I have purchased a new solid state rectifier

tempImagecLHiLJ.gif

, also a new battery. on reading all the threads /google/you tube etc I am a little confused. they state that both wires (orange/light green) from stator are joined and the light switch side of the orange wire is left disconnected and insulated ? this puts both sets of coils outputs into one side of the new rectifier (AC), the other AC terminal is the white (stator ground )wire. from what I read on the rectifiers website it is also a regulator? the + terminal to earth (pos earth) and the Neg terminal to neg battery.
Q1- does this not overcharge as both sets of coils working continuously or is it regulated by new rectifier?
Q2 - does the emergency switch still work if battery flat?
Q3 - will the lights work?

Am I just being a bit thick??

[Amb3611]

I would say firstly your battery is not holding enough volts to start the bike and switching to EMG of course brings in the alternator to do the job. New batt.
Next as Spriddler says is the translucent resistor (ballast) wire in circuit because this should hold volts from 3 alternator coils until you switch headlight to ON which brings in all 6 coils.
Suggest a new batt, disconnect the alternator, start the engine and do the alternator tests detailed in the workshop manual.
PS. I see you wrote reg/rectifier well as far as I understand you wont need the ballast wire with a regulator.

The only translucent wire i found was the earth wire connected to battery about 4" long and was damaged so I replaced it. I have been unable to find any other translucent wire (which I believe is the resistor wire) anywhere on the bike ( it has been heavily messed with prior to me) perhaps this may have contributed to the overcharging ??

[ajscomboman]

That rectifier won't actually help if there's no resistance wire. It converts the ac to dc but does not actually have a built in regulation. An Al Osbourne A Reg 1 would have been better as it is a 6v regulator/ rectifier

[Amb3611]

Thought as much . Thanks for the quick reply. I was looking at sorting it tomorrow. Looks like a trip back to the shop then for a refund.

[vigo]

Yes that 3510 is ONLY a rectifier not a regulator and your description twisting orange and green together is converting to usi with a reg/rec and doing away with the ballast wire.