P11 and others

[242017]

"Were they not all Bitzas to one degree or another apart from perhaps the 7R - on the G85 the frame was unique plus some fibre glass parts untill the P11 came out, so it was also a Bitza"

I dont regard a motorcycle,designed & built by the Matchless factory competely as a bitza.......A bitza to my mind is making something out of another bike that is was not designed for.....A four stroke Husqavarna Moto crosser using a BSA gearbox,Norton front forks,Horex front wheel and a Bsa rear wheel is to my mind a Bitza......the same applies to a P11

Here is a photo of a Metisse Mk 3.....very original for its condition.....made by Andy Lee.....riden by me.

And My G85cs.......You can see the difference quite plainly.....Im 62 and have been scrambling the big English bikes since I was eighteen and have no thoughts of stopping just yet

[500tg3lc]

Well done, I hope you're still at it at my age 75 - I started Trials with a g3lc at 16 (KK club NW London) - not trying to be pedantic but still think you are a bit narrow minded with regard to Bitzas - why do you seem to dislike P11s so much, because they are quicker than a G85 in a strait line, or because they took the G85 frame turned the front lugs round and put a 750 Norton twin in it and made it into a road bike, sacrilege I know but..............

[242017]

I think they messed up a really good bike.....and generaly there are very few people who know how good that they were in their introduction and regard the Matchless G85cs as just the bikes that were sold to the states.....There is a great deal more to that story before then...The 109 bikes were sold to the states because they could not sell them anywhere else....Motocross had moved on....and the yanks hadnt got a clue about motocross at that time....so the bikes were not suited for their type of straight line racing.



The P11 is a Matchless G85cs minus the engine and the back wheel


I like the Matchless G85cs for what it is and represents....I find it better to ride than the Metisse.....but not as good as my Cheney Matchless......but thats another story

[p400]

It doesn't make any sense hijacking this thread for G85 discussion when there is a forum thread for this model already.

[500tg3lc]

I wan't aware the thread had been hijacked, lots relevent one way or another to the P11 - anyway over to you - what do you think?

[242017]

I agree.....as I stated the P11 is a Matchless G85cs minus the engine and rear wheel hub......how can you exclude that ???? and the discussion is titled "P11 and others" sooo ?.....

[500tg3lc]

Is that the 7R rear wheel hub - the same as the prototype P11 had?

[242017]

The G85cs used the 7R G50 rear hub as standard on the factory racers and the series to the states.....The prototype P11 was a G85 but fitted with the 750 Norton motor

[500tg3lc]

So would you say the G50 is a Bitsa - an AJS 7R with a Matchless engine - or is the difference that the lump in the P11 was a Norton engine that was originally created before AMC took Norton over?

[242017]

Exactly...The Norton engine in a Matchless motorcycle...... The G50 and the 7R were both designed and made by the Matchless factory....When Norton moved to Plumstead they started to make bikes that were neither Matchless or Norton