Numbers puzzle
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Numbers puzzle
Hi all, Canada calling after a fairly long absence from the forum. My Matchless CS is 99% complete, and an article will be submitted for Jampot, but before doing so perhaps some of our learned brethren can help solve a numbers question. As can be seen by the attached pic the engine number is 58/G12 05998, club records show the bike was completed and tested on 11/11/57, shipped to Firth's in Canada on 18/11/57 tested by Bob Regan. The dating certificate from the club shows it was a 648c.c, not a 646. There is the mystery. Is this possibly a Cooper specced motor, as '57 was in the midst of the export or die period? Thoughts would be appreciated.
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- dave16mct
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Re: Numbers puzzle
For 58 export 646cc one year only. See Don Madden's description in the Tech Articles. You seem to have 60-0n heads and 60-on duplex frame.
Dave.
Dave.
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Re: Numbers puzzle
I know zilch about twins but shouldn't the engine number have 'CSR' after the number G12?
There was a 1964 G12CSR of 648cc on sale here:
There was a 1964 G12CSR of 648cc on sale here:
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Last edited by SPRIDDLER on Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Which taken at the flood............'
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Re: Numbers puzzle
A bit more background here, esp re. duplex frame as Dave mentioned:
https://www.motorcyclenews.net/tag/retr ... ws/page/6/
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Re: Numbers puzzle
As with any basket case, this one languished for many years under a bench, who knows the what and why of how the bits came together. Club records show the frame to be a CSR, the engine as you can see is a '58 G12, what happened to the original frame and engine that go with what I have will forever be a mystery. However, it would certainly appear that the parts as delivered to me the owner(s) previous to the gentleman i bought it from used it as a CS.
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Re: Numbers puzzle
As a picture is worth 648 words here is the almost finished project in CS format. An article for Jampot will be submitted in due course. Not correct in many areas I am sure, but this is what it arrived at in boxes.
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- dave16mct
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Re: Numbers puzzle
Well done, you've made a lovely job of that. I'm sure you're going to have some great rides too! I'm looking forward to your article in the Jampot.
Dave.
Dave.
- les ward
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Re: Numbers puzzle
As I understand it, the 1958 (N America only) 650s were created by changing the position of the gudgeon (wrist) pin to enlarge the capacity and these pistons only fit those specific bikes. Otherwise they were virtually the same as the 600s. The 1959 650s had newly designed barrels, heads and pistons. This might explain the difference between the stated 646cc and 648cc.
Barrels, heads and pistons changed again for 1960 and it looks like you have these fitted now.
Barrels, heads and pistons changed again for 1960 and it looks like you have these fitted now.
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Re: Numbers puzzle
I never understood the gudgeon pin position discussions...Surely this makes no difference to the swept volume (capacity) of the cylinder ?
Bombling contentedly around rural Aberdeenshire
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Re: Numbers puzzle
I don't recall seeing any official factory documentation (e.g. Posters, Adverts, Owners or Workshop manual) stating 648cc, only third party adverts/editorial and on the OP's V5 (which perhaps was a mistake by the clerk who produced that document. )
'There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which taken at the flood............'
Which taken at the flood............'